I feel like waking up
I’ve had this dream before
I’ll take these footsteps
Go higher, go higher
And higher and higher they go! Like a gale-force wind, the force of nature which is Pop Evil is breaking the mold and knocking down all pre-conceived notions as to what a Rockstar should be, what they sound like, and where they should come from. A band from west Michigan, Pop Evil have taken their licks, taken their risks, and are now reaping the rewards. Their songs touch people on many levels, breaking away layers and strike with emotional and melodic dexterity.
With the release of their fourth studio album Up, Pop Evil are bringing their A-game. With guitarists Nick Fuelling and Davey Grahs, Matt Dirito on bass, Chachi on drums, and Leigh at the helm, Pop Evil is more than taking it higher, they are taking it all the way.
I notice you have Adam Kasper on the new album—he’s got an amazing track record! What kinds of things did he bring to the album for you?
Man, he changed the game for us! We feel Adam was that missing link. He really helped tie it together for this core group. This is the first time we’ve recorded a whole album with the same lineup twice. Normally, every record we’ve had different people, so to be the same kind of lineup with Adam it was really cool—we were already gelling, we just needed that producer to come in and steer us in the right direction. We were nervous because, obviously, his track record speaks for itself, but we didn’t know what to expect of Adam. We were like, “Wow, we’re nervous. He’s worked with all the best in the business. Can he really help us? Are we going to be ready for him?” But it all fell into place once we got to Seattle—we felt so blessed at how naturally it just took on its own thing and felt comfortable for us.
Having heard it, it is a great companion to Onyx–they are both very powerful albums. I know there were some very personal songs on Onyx, especially for you. This time out, was there anything that struck you like that or was it a little different experience?
Obviously Onyx was very personal – not only did I lose my father (so I was torn to pieces) but where rock is—especially where our career was. When we were doing Onyx, it felt like it was all or nothing; if this album doesn’t work for us, I mean, the money is dried up, this could be our last record. We kind of went in with Onyx with this kind of anger, angst, frustration. We had two guys: Chachi (Riot) our drummer and Nick (Fuelling) our guitar player; it was our first time working with Johnny K (an A-List producer). There were so many things going against us that we were so angry when we were recording Onyx, that we feel very lucky that we were able to get the success out of it that we did, from being in a darker place when we started that.
This time around we didn’t want to sell out and regurgitate the same success we’ve had with this album. We knew what our live show was missing, and we wanted to put forth the best to make sure that those gaps that we need to make our live show that much more enjoyable for our fans was attained on this record. So, we dove in, and we didn’t really know what to expect with Adam, but once we calmed down and let those first days come through we really got to get into Adam’s teaching. It was amazing how everything kind of fell into place. The vibe was just so much more natural; it was so much more pleasant. We weren’t really competing with each other, we were embracing each other, we were supporting each other; it was fun once again. We got into rock and roll to have fun, and it just seemed like with the previous three albums there was just so much tension, so much stress. This time around we wanted to be appreciative of the things we’ve accomplished, the things we’ve done, and just create an atmosphere for us all to write and bring ideas to the table and be open-minded to each other’s presence in the band.
That’s terrific. I’m happy you brought up live shows. I’ve been a fan of your work for a while, but I got to see you live for the first time at Rock on the Range. I wanted to know, what was it like getting to play trenches with Darryl D.M.C. McDaniels and the U.S. Marines?
Easily one of the biggest highlights of the band’s career and for me personally. You don’t really get to enjoy it that day—there’s just so much pressure, so much stress. On paper, it looks like its gonna be perfect and its gonna be awesome, but when things exceed expectations…it’s kind of this idea that is bigger than you and it was meant to be! That consumes you. That is how that day was. Number one: being able to contribute to the men and women who serve our country from the Lima company there in Ohio, to be able to give back in some small way to let people know that: yeah, we are playing music, but we are still Americans. We’re still people that pay taxes in this country and still have a great love and pride for the people who help give us freedom. To be able to give back like that, and to remind our music faithful that we believe too and we’re proud to be Americans, not just proud to be rockers. It was just such an emotional day. Talking to Darryl and all the great things he’s done and him saying to us, “That’s got to be one of the most amazing live experiences of my career.” To have a legend like that, a Hall of Famer, to be a part of that with him…it was easily the biggest show of our band’s career. All these elements were working together to give you such a special day, it was amazing to be a part of. I think I’m still numbed by it if I think about it.
Having been there, I can say that it affected the entire audience and it was an amazing experience even on the other side of the stage. We definitely appreciated it.
I love hearing it! Thank you! I think that moment too—on the biggest stage in America, Rock on the Range, to have it happen that day in front of all of those people was a big reminder—wow, this band is for real, that’s a big thing. That kind of sent the momentum even greater, as Onyx continued to grow on radio and all the success we’ve had with sales with it—that kind of spearheaded it.
Now you have sports teams picking up your music, the potential for soundtrack work, so many places you can continue to grow—what does that feel like?
It’s great. I grew up with the sports mindset—my first dream was to be a professional athlete. I had an ACL repair, and that kind of shattered my hopes and dreams, and I didn’t end up being 7 foot tall, so that didn’t work out either. It just kind of was one of those things. I’ve always got sports in my mindset, I always think of the Michigan Fab Five Team—the mentality and motto in that era was always “Us Against The World” and it kind of feels like that with Pop Evil. You’re constantly battling; you’re having these battles which are your shows, and you’re trying to prove, every night, that you’re worthy of being there. When you’re playing in front of American audiences, they’re not as easy to win over. When you think about American fans, music is so personal to a lot of people—you bring those favorite bands, those CDs, those artists, you bring them into your house, you bring them into your personal space and they become a part of your family. They become a part of your time capsule. The music speaks your life and your chapter. People aren’t as easy to just let other people come and go in there, they’re not as easy to let other bands come and do their thing. So when they do accept you, it’s something that’s earned. I understand that now, especially having played all over the world, how European audiences differ from American audiences. It’s interesting—once you win over an American crowd, they’re there for life. But, to get them there it takes a little bit of time. There is definitely a grind and it feels like you’re in battle mode. When I think back on the early years, we’re just trying to write the best music we can and prove it live every day, night in, night out, 200 shows a year since 07. Just keep fighting, man.
Back to sports again, I’m here in Ohio. Obviously, we both know the rivalry that Ohio State has with Michigan, which we both probably enjoy. Here’s my question: from your perspective, what’s it like playing “In the Big House” in Ohio? Do you get some glee out of it, some joy?
No, we don’t play “Big House” in Ohio ever, why would we do that? (laughs) Never. But no, we don’t play “In the Big House” anymore because now there’s so many teams. When we wrote “In the Big House” we were still a baby band, you know? It wasn’t even so much for the football time as it was a tribute to the Big House itself, and what that symbolizes for football in the state of Michigan. I remember going with my Mom and Pops to the games, going to Michigan football camp, as I’m sure kids in Ohio went to Ohio State football camp. I’ve always been a fan of the Big 10, and it’s weird now when I think of all my rivalries growing up and my favorite teams—my Mom was Notre Dame and my Dad was Michigan, my brother was Michigan State, so it was always a battle in the household. But now with all the support we get in different cities, especially Columbus, it’s really hard for me hate on those rivalries. It’s funny, when I think back on last season, I’m always against the team that wins all the time, so I was all about Ohio State in the finals last year. It’s weird, I have an appreciation for different teams and how they support Pop Evil. I know Michigan State does a lot to rep our band. I’m trying to get Coach Dantonio out to the show this Sunday. It’s just fun man. I love sports! I love how different cities and different states support their teams. I remember the first time we played Cleveland, my first time to Ohio, I’ll never forget it. I was driving, we had like a Denali or a Tahoe or something, and we had Michigan plates on the back of the trailer. I swear to you–and I know you’re going to believe this, being from Ohio—it was the cutest little grandma, and she was by herself in her whip, it must have been like a Toyota Corrolla or something, just total everyday Midwestern Grandma. She was speeding past me, and I look over to the left as I’m driving and I see a nice old grandma middle finger in the air to me. Flying it proud to me, cause of my Michigan plates. I’m like—but you don’t even know if I like Michigan! What are you all mad at me for? (laughs) It was just unbelievable, they take it serious here in Ohio!
Yeah, and you weren’t even in Columbus at that point! You go further south and it gets worse. And if you haven’t been here and don’t understand the rivalry, people don’t get it on the outside.
They really don’t. Our fanbase in Columbus—it is big, it is awesome, and the rock and rollers there are inspiring. It’s really hard to hate on a city where people have love for you. Hey, we’re playing OSU, I get it, I gottta have my loyalties. I’m from Michigan. But, I respect that rivalry and I get it said to me all the time by Ohio State faithful—they’re like “When’s Michigan beat us? Not very often lately.” I get it, I get it, I’m definitely in tune with it all, it’s just awesome. I know EPSN is pumping “Footsteps” actually as we speak. The SEC network added “Footsteps” for the entire season, so you’re going to be hearing a lot more Pop Evil all over the TV when it comes to sports, and especially my favorite thing in the whole world college football. I love it.
Pop Evil – Footsteps (Lyric Video)
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Being sports related—I thought “Footsteps” was perfectly suited for sports, movies, all kinds of things, and I really liked that about the song.
Yeah, it’s really amazing how big this song—again, this is something totally new for the band, this time around. I think when you think about “Trenches” too, looking back, we don’t want to do the expected. “Oh, they’re just going to come with another “Trenches, that worked for them.” That’s not our style, that’s not our Michigan mentality, that’s not even Ohio mentality. It’s like shock the world! Even in sports, Ohio State’s not going to come with the same uniforms when it is their throwback unis, they’re going to do something different, they’re going to do something to shock and entertain. We wanted to try something different with “Footsteps” to be inspiring. I think back on all the times in my life, and I’m sure you can relate, just take it one step at a time. If you think about the Pop Evil journey, we’ve been the band that has steadily, slowly but surely just keeps climbing up and up and up. Everyone’s doubted us; everyone kept blowing us over, but we’ve been steady. We had always heard since we were kids that great songs shine through. If you want be great, that’s the hard part—you’ve got to write great songs. We went back to the drawing board to make sure every hook was hookable, every dance part, every pulse, every beat, every guitar riff, every guitar tone, which Adam Kasper was so key in…so that when you are in your car, and you’re just living your life, and you’re going through the hustle and bustle that is your everyday ordeal, you hear that song and you can’t just help but bop your head. Next thing you know you’re like (sings) “I feel like waking up, I’ve had this dream before,” and oh my gosh I’ve had that dream too, I can relate to that! And that’s what music is man—it’s the Hallmark card that says the things you’ve always wanted to say, but sometimes you didn’t even know you felt.
That is so true. That is why sometimes albums like Pink Floyd’s Dark Side of the Moon sold so many copies—it’s relatable, it’s something everybody experiences, and sometimes people lose that. Today’s pop music misses a lot of that, I think.
I think the pop culture is more for the now—like hey party put your hands up, throw your hands up—it’s here today, gone tomorrow. If you look at pop radio/pop TV, they kind of embrace it for a minute and then you are gone. Rock radio builds careers. People come, they keep coming to our shows, they’re loyal, they’re diehard. Men and women, kids. They’re raising their kids on Pop Evil. It’s definitely an honor and responsibility that we understand. Again, when we were making this record, we were thinking about our fans, even our fans that we don’t have yet that will be our fans after this record. Something like “I feel like I’m waking up” or “Go higher” you can hear that 20 years from now and, hopefully, be able to say, I still want to go higher, I still have a dream about taking one step at a time. We try to make the most relatable songs and if we can write music that helps us and we can believe in, we can perform it to the highest ability and make sure we can help inspire others; so people know when they see us live that we believe in the songs that we write.
Definitely. When you talk about influences, some amazing talents have come from Michigan—Ted Nugent, Bob Seger, the list goes on an on. I’m curious, growing up where you did, how did those influences affect you? Did that come into the psyche of creating the band?
Absolutely. It’s very similar to growing up in Ohio, it’s part of the blue-collar mentality. We grew up paycheck to paycheck—Mom and Dad ain’t saving for the long haul. We’re making this to get us through this year, we’ll figure out next year when we get there. The only thing that really got us through those times was our music. It was a lot of Nuge, a lot of Seger in those days growing up. As Pop Evil started to get bigger and embraced, it was of course the legend and the awesomeness Kid Rock and Eminem. Both those are two of my biggest idols right there, being a Michigander. Not just how great they are as musicians, but the two of those and how they are ambassadors for the great state of Michigan. They have inspired me personally since day one, and what they do for our community here and what they do for our state. How proud they are to be where they’re from I think has rubbed off on me the most. It’s one of those things, people are always telling you—oh you need to move to New York or LA, go to the big city! Look dude, we’re from here; we’re from west Michigan! We’re not from Detroit; we’re from west Michigan! When has there been a radio rock band that has had three number ones from west Michigan? It hasn’t happened in my lifetime, why can’t we be the first? We just want to bring attention and more money and more income to the economy right here where we come from first, and then as we can expand and branch off to the state of Michigan and then the Midwest. That’s something we’re proud of man. I’m a tax-paying American here, I’m not just some kid trying to get my rocks off. It’s pride to me. Rock and roll is 1% music, 99% being an American and living my life. I’m proud of where I’m from, I believe in the soldiers and the men and women who fight for our freedom, I believe in the music we right—that’s all I can do is be me. I think that as Pop Evil continues to grow, you see more of the honesty and more of our personalities off the stage. There’s no tricks, there’s no special effects, no big lighting and big fire, cannonball rigs for us at this point, it’s just us. No condoms, just in your face, that’s what we are.
And there’s nothing that says rock and roll more than that.
There you go. I couldn’t agree with you more.
And guys like Bob Seger and Kid Rock, they are still living there in Michigan. They’re involved, and I respect that.
It’s funny, Ohio is one of my favorite places too. The state is so similar and there so much pride, and I’m a huge Lebron fan. Just what he’s doing, to come back to his hometown again and try to do it there. Even though he got his championships. I think he learned a valuable lesson–it’s not always about success, but about sharing the success with the people that matter. That’s a lesson I try to take—people in small towns and cities like where we grew up, they don’t have much to cling on to. That little bit of you, you might not think it matters–like when people say oh, maybe my dollar doesn’t matter, I’m just going to rip this song off the internet—that one dollar does matter to the band. Your fight to do a little bit of inspiration could help that next band, could help that next person get through to let them know, there is that motivation. I know it sounds cliché, but if Pop Evil can make it, I drink the same water those guys drink, those guys are a bunch of douches, I know where they come from. Or wow, if they can do it, I’m gonna keep fighting man! There’s hope, people can get out of here. To be honest, Kid Rock and Eminem making it gave me that extra push—if those guys are making it why can’t I? And here I am—it does happen. It can make a difference in people’s lives, and you can make a difference in one person’s life and we’ll start there.
