Since the early 2000’s, blue collar Michigan rockers, Pop Evil, have been steadily climbing the charts and building their fan base one listener at a time. Founded by lead vocalist Leigh Kakaty, and joined shortly after by rhythm guitarist Dave Grahs, they seemed to have found their winning formula when they released their third album Onyx, which produced four top-ten singles. With the release of their fourth record, Up, this past August, it’s the first time Pop Evil has maintained their line-up for two consecutive albums, having Nick Fuelling on lead guitar, Matt DiRito on bass, Chachi Riot manning the drums, Grahs on rhythm guitar, and Leigh Kakaty providing lead vocals. We had a chance to catch up with Kakaty on their latest tour to discuss life on the road, their latest record, Up, working with Motley Crue legend Mick Mars, and what it’s like to hear their music all over ESPN and at just about every major sports stadium in the country. Read on to learn more about this hard-working, and hard-rocking, band from the Mitten.
Lets talk about the current tour. It seems to be the endless tour.
Leigh: Yeah, sometimes it feels like it is. It’s like the next tour and the current tour all blend together. You’re right; in this day and age and being in rock music, I like to relate to the fact we’ve got to stay open 24/7. We never really close. We’re always playing, always trying to play for that person that hasn’t seen us play. We are consistently our own walking advertisement.
You just came out with a new album back in August, Up. Can you take us through the writing process? You went out to Seattle to record this.
Leigh: We didn’t want to have a bunch of gimmicks on this record, no collaboration; it was just going to be us. If collaborations come down the road, we are open to it, but we really want to solidify our own identity. We felt like being out in Seattle for this record that we are getting closer to finding that. We can just feel it internally, and we started to feel like we are getting that perfect balance between the real world and the tour world. It is sometimes hard to walk that line.
When you are putting the record together, is it a group effort?
Leigh: For this record especially, there was more of that. We’ve gone through member changes or certain issues, like with the label, where it felt like it was more of my stuff and everyone else played catch up. I’ve been writing since I was a kid; I have all the material. When I’m writing with more people, it takes longer. By the time we get through everyone’s ideas and concepts, everyone is at different stages in their writing careers. This time around, it was the first time we were able to do a record with the same lineup as our previous album. We wanted to make sure we gave our band an opportunity to grow musically. As a band, we let the four guys go out there and lay some music first, write together, get their ideas out. I went separately to write my own thing, as I write music and lyrics. By the time I went to Seattle and saw what the guys did, it was just incredible. They opened the doors for me to go to L.A. and experiment, do something different. I didn’t have to fill a bunch of space; I didn’t have to do a bunch of extra work. I went out there and had an excited clear mind, really get out and remember why I got into rock; it was to have fun, and I wasn’t having fun until now. I put the bottle down in December; it’s almost been a year for me. I had the time to just get focused on my vocals. Again, it’s not just about not drinking again; it’s while I’m working, I’m not here to drink. I am here to be selfish. I’m here to sing and sound good. That kind of responsibility kicked in on this record. There are people starting to like the band now and are becoming interested in the band. It’s taken a long time to happen. We want to respect that. We want people to say, when they see us live, “Wow, these guys sound good!” It’s my part as a vocalist to make sure my voice is as pristine as it can be playing 250 shows a year. I don’t want any excuses for my own self, knowing I can’t sing and hit those high notes because I’m hung over. That’s unacceptable to me. I didn’t work this hard to be sick on the road; I want to be good and to enjoy it. Now that I’m seeing clearly, it’s much more enjoyable. We went out there (Seattle) and experimented with some fun musical things and songs like “Footsteps”, “Ways To Get High”, and “Take It All”, and now the sky’s the limit. It was very scary at the time with a song like “Footsteps”; now that the song is almost a year old, and it’s unbelievable. I can’t even watch Monday Night Football without hearing it every time. That’s a good thing!
Speaking of football, you’re a big sports fan aren’t you? Michigan guy?
Leigh: It’s crazy. I grew up in Michigan, I had my favorites, but now there are so many teams and players that, like the band, if you support Pop Evil, I support you. Right now, Michigan State has me going to the Cotton Bowl. My boys are all at Michigan State right now. I support my friends. I love Michigan, I love Michigan State, and I am a big Notre Dame Fan. I’m also a big fan of the Detroit Lions, but you know, even our battle rivalry that Michigan has had with Ohio State in Columbus has turned into a Pop Evil zone area. It’s hard to hate.
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You must be torn?
Leigh: It’s easy not to be torn when people in those cities embrace your band. They appreciate your hard work. I just try to stay away from the rivalries now. I just like good competition.
What’s it like to hear your music on ESPN or on a commercial, such as the Dodge commercial you are the soundtrack for?
Leigh: It’s awesome. Our friends, fans, and peers tell us when they hear it, too. I don’t get to watch TV much, and when I do it’s usually murder/mystery stuff. That’s the only thing that takes my mind off of music for a minute. I’m like, “who did that? I’ve got to watch this!” I get suckered in. But I think to be on ESPN is something that’s exciting; my first passion was to be an athlete. To have a little bit of an impact on sports in a musical way is a huge honor and something that never gets old. It’s cool for sure.
Is that another outlet to make money? I’m not sure how it works with ESPN, but the Dodge commercial or something like that?
Leigh: You know, money is a hard conversation in music. It’s not easy for rockers. I’m sure anybody that plays rock music knows it’s not easy to make money like pop artists or the country artists make. Rock is in a transition, and I go back to the reference we’re like the midwestern blue collar, minimum wage of the music business. There’s no excess; there are no lavish paychecks to go buy MTV cribs or to go buy these expensive cars. Even if we had cars, we play over 200 shows a year; when would I drive it, let alone make a payment on one? It’s just hard work; it’s all we know. Trying to get out here and find my zone on a tour bus is not always easy; for me, it’s a little bit of meditation, a little bit of just not talking. You’ll notice with me no one is back here (we are sitting in the back lounge of the tour bus). I just don’t talk all day; it protects my voice.
Going back to the record, it was produced by Adam Kasper. How did that come about?
Leigh: We took a stab at him. I was a huge Pearl Jam fan growing up, obviously Foo Fighters, Soundgarden, everything that was Seattle, I loved. I thought we were going to get a shot to write and record it all in L.A.; being from Michigan, I wanted to be warm. I was just tired of writing records in the winter in Chicago and having it just wear and tear on me. It’s just not fun. I felt like the weights on my shoulders, and I could really feel the stress. I thought out west it would be nice. We could go down to the ocean for a minute; being in Michigan, we’d always go to the lake and write. In the winter it’s not really the best place to be. I really wanted to go out there and let my mind be released. I needed to put the touring behind me to focus on writing and being creative. Our managers put it out there that maybe we could get a shot at Adam. I was like, wow if we get a shot at Adam, we’ll move everything to Seattle. We can do it. Sure enough, we hit him at the right time. He was real excited about working with some up and coming new bands and gave us a shot. The rest is history.
“In Disarray” – that’s one of my favorite songs off of the new album – I love your vocal style on it. The beginning of it reminds me of the late Scott Weiland. Your vocal style throughout the record changes, which I love. How do you manage that?
Leigh: If you look at the texture of what my background is, I grew up very influenced by hip-hop. I was a brown-mixed kid in a Dutch Grand Rapids, Michigan. I was influenced by Kid Rock and Eminem. I was able to learn early on in my performing days how to manipulate my vocals and my melodies to have a little influence of both those styles. I wanted to showcase that more, instead of having that be a negative thing. In the early years of my career, it was kind of negative, so many people would tell me I needed to choose a side. On this record, I wanted to exploit and deliver my vocal textures. In a long song like “Seattle Rain”, for now it can literally be my real voice, which is low-key; that low drone that is my normal speaking voice. Or I can take it up an octave and hold out the notes, give more vocal sustain, be a little more like STP or Alice in Chains. It’s very difficult to do something no one has done already. So every time I hold out a note or I have melody, I’ve got to be compared to someone. And that’s okay; we’re artists that are inspired by great bands. You see some of those things come out. We didn’t sit down and try to sound like anything, We never said, “Oh, this song needed this or that.” The concept, in something like “In Disarray” where it feels like we’re spinning off the rails and projected from a lyrical standpoint in a way that it would be relatable to others, it was cool how it came out. How Adam recorded it gave it a 90’s swagger.
How do you go about picking a single?
Leigh: It’s a difficult thing. It’s getting more difficult now as we get to the third and fourth tracks, if we’re blessed enough to get more singles. “Footsteps” was a pretty obvious choice; we wanted to make a statement that we don’t want to do what our competitors are doing. We didn’t want to put a song that sounds like Five Finger, Halestorm, or Shinedown. We wanted to put out a song that doesn’t sound like anything like any of those bands, so we could stand out. I think we’ve done a great job in our career in not always sounding like everyone else, especially when it’s our first single. The last one was “Trenches”, which they really weren’t ready for, at least from us. Now with “Footsteps”, they were expecting another “Trenches”, but as soon as you are expecting something from us, we want to do something different. “Footsteps”, overall, had a positive message. We are not trying to beat people up. We are not better than anybody; we’re singing with melody, songs that are trying to inspire people. That’s cool if we do. We are the kind of guys that like to have a good time, like to have fun with people. We want to show that more on stage now and on our records. It doesn’t mean that there won’t be a song with some angst, but the overall first message we wanted to deliver on this album, Up, was a positive message. It was risky with “Footsteps”; we often wondered if people would even dig it because it’s so different. We knew there was something special about the song, but we just didn’t know to the active rock crowd if they were going to embrace it. To see how big it is, it’s not even been out a year, is pretty incredible. Now, with “Ways To Get High”, we went with for the next one in line, which I feel is one of the catchiest songs on the album. I think it’s exciting to see what this one can do as well. Keep it going.
Tell me about working with Mick Mars.
Leigh: We had an opportunity during the making of our second record to shoot for the stars. We were asked who would we like to work with, and obviously we are huge Motley Crue fans, and if we got a chance to write with Mick, we knew that we could probably learn a few things. It just so happened he liked what the band was doing and wanted to give it a shot. We went out there to L.A. with him where we usually record and write. It just worked out; we took a trip to his house and came up with this insane riff that ended up becoming “Boss’s Daughter”. It kind of snowballed from that; then it was, let’s do the music video, and he was like, I’d love to do the music video. We were still new and were just getting out of a big legal issues with our previous label, so when our new label got us out of that, our new label had already invested a lot in us. When we were getting ready to do the music video with Mick Mars, they were not about it, so I had to fund it out of my own pocket. When Mick Mars says he’s going to be in a music video with you, you do what it takes. That was a fun point in our career to get a chance to work with him. All of his stories were amazing. It was a great learning experience that trickled into the momentum that was Onyx, our third album, and to where we are today with Up.
Favorite band to tour with?
Leigh: A lot of them – everyone is unique. The more we play with people, the more we get to know them. We find out a lot about people off the stage and how they treat others and us. We learn how they treat us and lead by example. Everyone we’ve toured with, for the most part, we’ve learned something from; they’ve been all great that I remember.
No bad experiences?
Leigh: We’ve had them, but you work it out. This business is so small. All artists play with everyone so many times, any time we’ve ever had anything negative and we see them again, we all try to squash it so everyone’s cool. We just keep to ourselves and stay out of people’s way. If you’re opening, it’s someone else’s house so you treat it that way. If it’s your house, treat it like your house. How would you entertain a guest? That’s how we were raised; our parents were very much involved with the band and supported us trying to chase the dream and raised us right. We can’t have this dream without people, you can’t be a douche and expect people to come back and see you. We try to be as doucheless as possible (laughs).
Everything I’ve read and just sitting here now I can see that there is nothing but positive.
Leigh: I appreciate that. We just try to be cool. You’re working for your dreams too, taking the time to push rock; it’s all a community. It’s so important to educate your listeners, the people you’re writing for; it doesn’t have to be any primadonna stuff. Rock n’ Roll is being an American; it’s living. Rock bands aren’t here today and gone tomorrow; you grow with bands. A lot of pop acts are here today for the now. Rock artists build careers, lifetimes, and raise their kids on rock bands.
That’s the difference between a rock band and something like American Idol, that one hit wonder. That’s why you don’t have rock bands on American Idol.
Leigh: Right, it’s pop music. It is its own thing, and it is cool. But with bands, there is a certain element that’s something so ideally American about getting an instrument at the local music store and learning to play music in your garage or your basement and taking it to the Garden or Fenway, wherever you are playing. It’s special; that’s the dream. There is nothing like it. Unfortunately, the American Idol way is to get it quick, get it now. It’s cool if you’re one of those people that makes it like that; people do win the lottery. For the rest of us, there is a such thing as working nine to five and grinding it out.
Two bands you would like to tour with?
Leigh: I would love to tour with AC/DC in Europe; Europe is insane. Foo Fighters would be good. Aerosmith, Bon Jovi, some of those great bands that have such great followings would be cool, but to be honest, we’re open for anyone. We’d love to get out with Shinedown; hopefully this year would be great. We love Shinedown. Who else? You name it, Breaking Benjamin, the list goes on We’d work with anyone that is willing to take us. It would be nice to get some of those alternative bands where we can kind of create opportunities for alternative and rock bands. We have to figure out how to work together and remind people in the mainstream world that pop, country, and hip hop are great, but what about rock? We have a voice, too. We just want to be heard as well.
Speaking of Europe, can you describe the difference between European and American audiences?
Leigh: It’s a different vibe. I think the U.S. is more prove it to me and Europe is give it to me. The have a different respect for live music; they are not so saturated. Let’s be honest; we’re Americans. We believe that everyone we’ve heard since we were kids, people from other countries, can come here and be millionaires tomorrow. It’s the land of opportunity. With that comes a lot of personal pride. For example, when you go to Walmart, are you going to get the Fruitio’s or get Toucan Sam and the real Fruit Loops? We’re all buying the Fruit Loops because it has Toucan Sam on the box. I’m not getting the Fruitio’s. They taste different. People ask, “What do you mean they taste different? They’ve got the same ingredients!” That’s the American way where people in Europe are still seen as old school and rooted in the fact they are convicted by American bands that are willing to make the sacrifice to go over there. The fans are not like, we are just going to show up when the headlining band gets there. If they are going to spend their money, they are going to be there in line from the beginning. They are going there to find new bands, not just to listen to the band they like.
You played Download (UK Festival) this year. I love Download.
Leigh: Yeah, main stage is amazing. We did the whole European Festival circuit. We played Rock Am Ring in Germany for about 200,000 people; it was ridiculous, just incredible. It’s inspiring, it makes us excited to just keep pushing. We’re just going to keep working. We didn’t get in it for money; we got in it to play shows, and we are playing over 250 a year. I think we’re winning, right? (laughs) We just keep playing; we don’t worry about any of that stuff anymore. We just keep trying to write great music, at the end of the day, that inspires us, and that’s where it has to start. You can’t inspire others or start a movement without believing in the stuff you write. We really feel proud of this record; we are not so angry anymore. We are trying not to be so angry about the situation with the business; we understand it’s a transition, and it takes time, and hopefully we can be a part of that solution. We keep doing what we can control; that’s just how we perform on stage. What we can do to be proactive before we get on stage is to keep the voice clean, keep the bodies healthy. If we do get that break, we won’t be too wasted, hung over, and have our bodies falling apart by the time we can really appreciate it. And hopefully it’s an easier journey for those up and coming bands. And for the kids to not think playing a guitar is playing Guitar Hero. We want them to know they have to stay after it and keep educating them. The good thing is the fans are more supportive than ever; social media animal fans want to know about us. Everyone always hear the people bitch about MTV not playing videos. Well, nobody would watch them. If you want to see a video, you can pull it right up. If you were to wait on MTV, you might see it one or two times a day. If you want to watch our video, you can watch it a hundred times on repeat. Everything is instant now. It’s different; we just have to keep battling, and hopefully, down the road mainstream will embrace rock. When Little Wayne is winning the best rock Grammy Award, it’s a little weird. At least they could be fair to give some kind of representation to rock. I think they did a good job this year actually with Sevendust getting a nod, along with some rock bands that have made some sacrifices. Awards shouldn’t be just because you feel sorry for bands; it should be because they deserve it. I could not care less about an award. I think it’s weird to say that someone’s expression is better than somebody else’s. It’s an opinion. But, it’s cool when they’re recognized for their hard work. It’s a sign that everything happens in certain cycles, and just maybe we can be a part of turning this cycle around and reminding people that rock is here to stay; it’s not going anywhere. We didn’t abandon you; hopefully they remember why they abandoned us to understand they need to come back to it.
When you’re off tour what are you doing?
Leigh: I golf nonstop; obviously, in the winter, I’m going to the Cotton Bowl and doing the football thing. I am a huge football fan. I just veg out a lot, recharge the batteries, enjoy family time. Usually if I get any off time, I try to fly to some warm places to golf; I’m a golf nerd. I’m not the best golfer. I’m a bogey golfer.
I’d say that’s pretty damn good.
Leigh: I’m decent; I can keep up with anybody. I’m not getting those under scores. I should be going, “I want to play a tour!” That’s my goal: to just go on tour, from golf to music and back (laughs). I’d probably make more money golfing.
Get into politics at all?
Leigh: I stay away from it.
Want to endorse anybody? Lean left or right? I can see it; you have an opinion (laughing).
Leigh: No, no…I don’t say anything, I just learned that I don’t talk about religion, and I don’t talk about politics. Music is kind of my religion.
Appreciate your time Leigh. Thanks very much!
